041 Why is Every AI Product the Same!

[00:00:04] Speaker A: All right, should we get started? [00:00:04] Speaker B: Let's do this. [00:00:07] Speaker A: All right, well, hey, welcome back to the Gregory and Paul Show. I'm Gregory. [00:00:13] Speaker B: I'm Paul. [00:00:14] Speaker A: And we break down the latest in SaaS startups, AI. We've made some changes over here. We're now streaming live on Thursdays at 11 and we're live across three platforms. Right, Paul? [00:00:29] Speaker B: Yep. X LinkedIn and YouTube everywhere. [00:00:32] Speaker A: Exciting. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Both of them are. Yeah. [00:00:37] Speaker A: I mean, like we started this as a live X base like about a year ago. Yeah, yeah. And like the live value prop was always something that we enjoyed and then we started uploading it to YouTube and now I've got, like a really interesting niche following on YouTube. And so we decided to reboot our approach when it comes to live streaming and we finally got our act together and are up across all three platforms. So I'm excited, Paul. [00:01:06] Speaker B: I'm super excited. [00:01:08] Speaker A: All right, let me break down the topics we have for today to discuss. So the first, we're going to talk about the great convergence when it comes to AI and how that is influencing product development. Then I want to touch on something that I'm excited about. Beehive, the newsletter platform, launched an MCP server connection which will allow you to interface with their platform through a AI tool like Claude. We'll talk about AI memory. I believe that's a new product release. Is that what you call it? Is that a product release? [00:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you could call it a product Release. It's a GitHub open source project from a. From an unexpected source. [00:01:57] Speaker A: And then I know you're excited about Claude Mythos. There's tons to talk about with the new model. Yeah. That Claude's released. Well, of course, of course, touch on SpaceX, Artemis, iPhone, Air. And of course, we always have a meme to finish off the show. [00:02:18] Speaker B: Of course. [00:02:20] Speaker A: So the great convergence. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Let's do the great convergence you want to kick us off with. [00:02:26] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So there was a post. Yeah. Do you want to share that post? Yeah, yeah, there was a post about the impact that AI is having on product development. And basically, at least their perspective is that AI products all converging into the same product. Right. So what we've known from things like ChatGPT and Claude, you present the user with a kind of chatbot interface which lets you do all, all kinds of stuff. Right. It's not just limited to chat and we see this now being adopted across lots of products. There are some people, I think, that were frustrated or there's a lot of criticism about how this type of interface was being, you know, kind of monkey wrenched into a lot of platforms. I remember some executions where like little windows would pop up somewhere and then they would want you to like kind of chat with it in this tiny little interface. It was very different, difficult. But I think some of those things have been sorted out and now we're seeing a lot of people just copy the CLAUDE and the chat GPT approach. And because like that approach I think is so well understood from those two products, everyone else is to some degree adopting the same value prop, which is type in a request, type in some type of like idea that you want to execute on and then tool does it. So of course there's a ton of questions when you start to see all these attempts or approaches or innovations to product design, product user interface converge on the same one. Why don't you, why don't you take it from there? [00:04:14] Speaker B: I, I don't know if it's a good thing. I, it just makes every single piece of software feel exactly the same. Right. Like for example, why should, why is notion becoming the same thing as figma becoming the same thing as like your favorite CRM? They're all basically doing exactly the same thing now. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Well, so does this mean that product differentiation goes away? Like is there just going to be one product that does everything? [00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah, you think so? The AI company is trying to. Eventually Google is going to become everything you can design in Google, you can sell in Google, you can distribute in Google. [00:04:54] Speaker A: I mean, so I don't know like one hand, I'm skeptical that's a swap that, yeah, that'll happen. But other hand, we have examples. So where this did happen. So there were lots of like single purpose consumer electronics that people bought and they all converged into basically one. So I remember not that long ago when you had a phone and you had a camera that I even had like a translation device at one point that I never used because it was very difficult. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Did you have a. To do voice memo voice? [00:05:26] Speaker A: No, I wasn't. Maybe when I was a kid or something. And then I remember when PDAs that were like separate from your phone and from your, you know, camera. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Of course that's right. [00:05:38] Speaker A: Were like a separate thing. I remember even having like a Palm Pilot connected to my email and it was a disaster. Like it would download like a thousand emails and it was totally unmanageable. They were really difficult to use. And then I remember the, they even called it at one point the convergence device. So I remember when a device called Sidekick came out by company named Danger. And that was the first one where like, at least they called it a convergence device. And it was like a phone and it had Internet and had a keyboard. You kind of flip it it out and had games and you could download applications. It was really innovative for the time and it showed the promise of where these things are going. So, so to make a long story short, like, yes, we've seen this before where an innovation happens and a bunch of like independent tools companies all converge into one. Right. So it's totally possible. I mean the scale, the scope and scale of like what's happening on the Internet and what's happening with like SaaS is quite large in my opinion, larger than what's happening with consumer electronics. So I don't know if like everything will be crushed into an AI interface, but I don't. What do you think? [00:06:46] Speaker B: Yeah, like why? The question is like who, what investor or founder looks at all this and decides to say, yeah, let's compete with every single other business on the planet and just build the same thing. I, it's just like as a builder, I, I don't, I don't really find this interesting at all. I think it's stupid. I think it's like, I, I just feel like yeah, there's a, the entire market might be larger on paper, but it also makes your product completely undifferentiated from anything else. So maybe they're, maybe their branding has to pick it up. Do you think? [00:07:26] Speaker A: Well, dude, I mean, branding. So like with an iPhone, they did give everybody an icon on the phone. A lot of people complain that, oh my God, my brand's been crushed down into an icon. But if you're just like a, a faded memory and you have to go into Claude and be like, oh, I think I remember this thing. I don't think that's going to work for well. So this brings to my, my biggest criticism. This is like, I think this is an interface for nerds, like a command line terminal, text based interface. Like there's a lot of very innovative, forward thinking tech bros who think this stuff's exciting. I don't think the average user is going to be able to access all these features that way. In fact, like, okay, so if we're talking about the smartphone analogy. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Steve Jobs said this himself. Every smartphone before the iPhone had all the same features. [00:08:21] Speaker B: That's right. [00:08:21] Speaker A: It's just that like no one used it. The UI and innovation of the iPhone is what unlocked all of the different features and made them like readily available to average users. [00:08:34] Speaker B: They target okay, so you're saying iPhone is the first one that targeted non power users. Right. Android always went after the developer crowd, the custom, the people who wants to customize it. Phones. IPhone was the first one that said this is what we built. [00:08:54] Speaker A: And yeah, they, they, I mean they went really, it was really innovative. Like so that danger thing, there were other crazy smartphones, like you had to like go in there and you could find apps. And there were even phones that had like ways to download apps to them, but they were clunky and hard to understand and complex. The iPhone made it like dead simple. Everything was icon. There was no like a menu. [00:09:16] Speaker B: Right. So their innovation was the app store. Right. Like iPhone app store was real innovation. So with all of this convergence, really we need a app store a some way for normal people to quickly. [00:09:35] Speaker A: I, I think so. I have said this before and I got a lot of pushback on this. I going all the way back to itunes. I said that was the actual innovation, not the MP3 player. There were a lot of MP3 players out there. What Apple introduced was the itunes interface. Itunes store the itunes software as a way to manage all their music. And like regular people could figure it out. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:00] Speaker A: So I, I think, I think, look, I would even go so far, I think we'd be proven correct. I think that like this idea that's all going to converge together is for power users, it's for nerds. Like regular people are not going to be like, oh, let me remember to type in Expedia in here. They're going to need an app store where they can go and browse and come up with ideas about how to even use the device. [00:10:23] Speaker B: That's right. [00:10:24] Speaker A: And I think some familiarity with the design and the branding is going to have value to it. Right? [00:10:29] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. So I think the prediction is yes, these apps are going to converge all become the same thing. Because the same way that you can think about all app in the app store look the same. They're literally all the same. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:47] Speaker B: You have an icon, you have a name to attract people to download the app. But the key innovation is that there's an app store for you to do it on. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean this is really interesting that there's like a universal way to use them, that maybe chat does become the default style. Sure, right. Because now you're gonna have like these toolbars and e commerce companies are, they're trying to adopt chat. Like in Asia chat is really popular. [00:11:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:12] Speaker A: So maybe there is a way where chat becomes the major interface. But I still think brands and having a branded experience and like you said, an app store will matter. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Shall we, shall we move on to. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I think, I think we debunked this one. Yeah. Okay, this just very quickly, Beehive, so they are a newsletter provider, one that I love and use. They released a MCP Server connector. Are they called connectors? So they have a way that you can connector. Are they called connect? Access your account from any interface Access supports MCP Server. So if you don't know MCP Server is. It's a protocol that Claude originally created as a way for AI to talk to each other. And so if you create one of these, it's kind of like an API. You create one of these, you can install it into cloud and have full access into the platform that it was created by. So for example, with Beehive you can go in there and call up and have it now do all kinds of analysis on your data and it can even create your own custom interface. It's really interesting. I haven't played around with it as much as I would like, but I love the idea. I love the company's really forward thinking and was able to release something like this. I think that the big, like the big, the big picture innovation here is this really changes data analysis. Perhaps particularly for like the marketing team. There was a lot of constraints in how marketers were able to access data or product teams as well, I suppose. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Like if you essentially any business user who is not part of the data science team in a large organization really struggled because you had to go through a lot of hoops to get the access you wanted. So this I think shows the future of where any team member who wants to dive in and get access can. And they can manipulate the data and like really amazing ways that were like perhaps not even available previously. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Yeah, this is really interesting. So I find myself using MCP a lot to do data analysis. So for example, I do truly believe nobody has to write SQL query anymore or at least they shouldn't be able to require knowing SQL queries to pull data out of a database or some platform. So the fact that Beehive recognized this, I think it's super cool. [00:13:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:54] Speaker B: However, it also means that the problem that I see is because you don't understand SQL query, it's putting lots of pressure on the model to actually know what it's doing. Because if you give yourself write access to databases and then you tell the thing, the AI to hey, let's do some analysis and let's improve some metrics. What if it goes and does crazy things like deleting half of your unsubscribe half of your listeners or half of your readers because, you know, because it [00:14:34] Speaker A: goes rogue and it goes crazy and decides to do. I mean, today I was doing some analysis with chat P& like kind of hallucinated. It was interesting, actually. I thought I hallucinated because it couldn't find the source for some data analysis doing. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:49] Speaker A: Then I actually found it manually. It was so bizarre. Right. It tells me, like I said, like, are you hallucinating? It says, yes, I'm hallucinating. It's not available. And then I look and think, I'm like, actually I did find it here. How come we couldn't find it? And then it corrects itself again and says, oh, right, it is in there. Here it is. I'm like, oh my God. Sometimes this stuff like makes me feel like a crazy person. Right. So I do, I do personally have concerns about the quality of the analysis you get from these types of things. And like, I also know that like most people are not gonna have the discipline to, to dive deeper and, and confirm their findings. [00:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So you'll get the data really fast, but then the queuing the data is still gonna be a problem, I think. So we'll see. Have you used it? Have you used the. [00:15:34] Speaker A: No, I haven't tried it. Yeah, I'm so busy. I meant like I put on my list of things to do and like, I just had other things. [00:15:41] Speaker B: We'll have to. [00:15:42] Speaker A: I would like to. I mean, you know, Tyler, the CEO Beehive did a big update in his newsletter and showed all these examples. It was really cool. [00:15:49] Speaker B: It did. [00:15:49] Speaker A: It did appear to me that use cases were basically limited to data analysis. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:56] Speaker A: Because like I've said for a while, what I want is a way to automate a lot of the newsletter creation and I haven't been able to figure that piece out. It didn't look like you could do that. Maybe that. Maybe there'll be a future version that does that. Like, I would love even simple stuff like duplicate this version, add this thing. Like there's a lot of text based things that I think I could automate with my newsletter. Just make it faster to produce. I haven't found a good way to do that right now. It's all kind of this browser based interface. Right. So there are tools that can automate that, but they're very clunky and kind of slow. They're not really. I'm not really gaining a whole lot, but if Beehive actually enabled that, that might give them a real edge. Right. If you were able to at least partially automate some of your newsletter, like especially the. The menial tasks, like duplicate the old one, change the day, update this. Like, and I could even perhaps in the cloud interface, tell it like, this is the new headline, perhaps this is even the new text I wrote. Just set that all up in my template and I can go back in and just kind of like modify it and. And optimize it. That would actually save me a ton of time having like, click in the Beehive, set everything up, do it the right way. Right. So I would love to. I'd love to see something like that. I do feel like that day, that day is coming and it's not far away. [00:17:17] Speaker B: So if anybody from Beehive is watching [00:17:19] Speaker A: or listening product feedback, I. I sent Tyler some memes. [00:17:23] Speaker B: He. [00:17:23] Speaker A: He laughed. [00:17:24] Speaker B: He liked them. Perfect. [00:17:26] Speaker A: True story. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Okay, AI memory. [00:17:31] Speaker A: This AI memory. Okay, this is yours. [00:17:33] Speaker B: This one came from left field. Okay. So the actress, Mila Jojovich, she was actress from. [00:17:41] Speaker A: So this is really her dude. Because like, I kept looking at this thing going like, totally. Is this. Is this AI? Like, okay, so. [00:17:47] Speaker B: So she's. [00:17:48] Speaker A: We believe. We believe it's her. [00:17:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it totally is her. So the company. So she owns a game gaming studio. She's been developing video games for the past, let's say five years. Cool. Very cool. Awesome. Then what they realized is during the development process, there is a much bigger opportunity to build a AI tool that helps. That's like a memory palace to help AI memory memorize things and remember context about the video game, et cetera. So they released a GitHub repo of the memory palace and supposedly it's one of the best ones on the market. I. [00:18:31] Speaker A: So it just. It just remembers stuff. [00:18:33] Speaker B: It just. That's right. Yeah. It just. It is basically one of the hardest thing to get right with AI right now is that every single AI session is starting from a blank slate, Right. So every time you launch ChatGPT, it has absolutely no idea we previous conversations with. It is. [00:18:51] Speaker A: But you could save the thread, right? [00:18:53] Speaker B: It saves the thread, but it does not reference your previous chats unless you very specifically tell it to. Hey, remember this thing in your memory. But that's like very small stuff, right? Like your name, your business name, your business address. Very small things like that Memory. Actual memory systems will remember everything in. [00:19:18] Speaker A: I see. [00:19:18] Speaker B: And is this not really a solved problem right now? It's Just cool. Because. [00:19:23] Speaker A: Have you tried it? [00:19:24] Speaker B: I. I've looked into the source code. I've not tried it, but there's a lot of competing products on the table. So internally, I do use something very similar for. For my agents. Awesome. [00:19:40] Speaker A: Well, I don't. I have no idea about this thing. I saw this thing and I just. I just didn't believe it. I just saw. It was. It was AI. I am a giant fan of Mila Jovic. I've seen a ton of her movies. I love Fifth Element, so she gets a vote for me. From that. On the brand perspective, I'm excited about. About her being spokesperson. I can't speak with any authority about the quality of the product, but I think it's a cool idea. [00:20:08] Speaker B: It's. [00:20:09] Speaker A: I was. I was shocked that it wasn't fake. I looked at. I was like, this is not real, dude. [00:20:14] Speaker B: It is not fake. It's a real, real thing. [00:20:16] Speaker A: It's funny. Now I assume everything is fake. [00:20:18] Speaker B: That's right. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:20:21] Speaker B: What is. What is cool is distribution. Distribution matters. The. The GitHub repo got, I don't know, like, 20, 000 stars or something. Crazy. [00:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Within the first 48 hours of releasing. [00:20:35] Speaker A: It is fascinating how GitHub has become like a distribution channel. Of course, like, it wasn't intended to be used that way a long time ago, and then slowly, over time, it's become that. And now, like, I. I see other products too. Like, they literally launch on GitHub. It's pretty cool. [00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So you can launch on GitHub. You can compete on GitHub for the. The most stars. Training repos. Her. Her repo right now is at 34, 000 stars, which is a lot. Most. [00:21:12] Speaker A: Is that a lot? [00:21:13] Speaker B: That's a lot. Most. Most repos will. Don't even get to, like 3,000 stars. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Don't get to 100. Yeah. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Don't get to like, 100. [00:21:23] Speaker A: So that's funny. [00:21:25] Speaker B: So her project is a massive success, and she'll probably raise some money from it, which is going to be interesting. Cool. [00:21:33] Speaker A: All right. Claude Mythos or Mythos? Is it Mythos or Mythos? Mythos. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Claude Mythos. This is a really cool. All right. [00:21:43] Speaker A: Okay. I want to stop because, like, I. I want to tell my own personal story about this. Was like, go for it. I just found on X, like, that post from Kevin Ruse. [00:21:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:52] Speaker A: The journalist with New York Times. He posted about the release, and the news was that it had not been released. That internally over at Claude, when they were working with this model. They claim that the new model, in their testing or however they were using it, found all of these security flaws. And they say every major browser, every major operating system open open with open BD. Right. OpenBSD. I always forget all kinds of issues and, and the news is that they've like held back the release and they're working with like security researchers or security people to perhaps, I don't know, patch those issues before they take this into, into full release. But you had a unique perspective on this, right? That they're holding it out, holding up release, and then making a lot of noise about all the security violations and flaws that they found. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:01] Speaker A: What was your, what was your take? [00:23:03] Speaker B: I. So, so there's two, two ways to look at this, right? So what right now, for example, if you ask ChatGPT or Claude to make you a bomb, it will literally tell you, no, we can't. Right. It's against our policies. So by all means, they could have just came out and said, if you try to use this system for cyber security hacks, our content policy or our filter won't let you do it. I don't think they're not releasing this model for the good of mankind because they're preventing their own model to be used incorrectly. I think they're, I think the take now is either they're delusional, completely delusional, thinking that the model is, is as good as a AGI AGI. Or they're just completely trying to make stuff up and pretending like this thing is the best, best model ever and they're picking the winners. I say they're only giving access to some of the business who pays the most. [00:24:21] Speaker A: So you think it's a 4D chess? Like, I mean, maybe it's cracked these things, maybe it hasn't. But hey, by making a lot of noise in the marketplace, they, they are able to convey this idea that like they have the superior technology. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:41] Speaker A: And like you need to be anointed it's market in order to use it. It's just, it's just marketing. [00:24:48] Speaker B: It's just marketing. [00:24:49] Speaker A: I mean, I, I thought you're putting, I'm sorry, I was gonna say there's a point about the, the like constraints or guardrails. Like I actually. That's a good point. You said to me when I first was talking about this, I actually hadn't considered it. I was just reading this article going like, like I was just. For me, I was surprised that they were able to finally. I guess not surprised. I guess surprised to hear that they. I guess, yeah, I was surprised that they hear that they were able to find it. Like, I'm not surprised that they exist, actually, but I am surprised that they identified it and they identified so many and they made a lot of, like, noise about it. Like, that is a big problem if all these things are easily crackable. Because, like, maybe it's the other side of this. Like, you're saying, like, oh, they could put guardrails. There's ways to mitigate this. On the other hand, I look at this and go, this is approaching the existential quantum moment where everything becomes hackable and crackable. So if you believe that quantum computing can. Is not in existence, because I have friends who, like, say it exists too, I won't go back to that. That if you have a quantum computer, you can basically crack any kind of security that's out there. I have a. Is actually quite cool. There's buddies I used to ride bikes with in Berkeley who, like, worked in Quantum Labs and stuff. And they would allude to, like, maybe North Korea has one of these things, blah, blah. And I was like, wow, is that true? But, like, when I thought really deeply about it, I was like, if I was North Korea, I would do everything in my power to create a quantum computer, because then you would have just godlike access. And if you're, like, the first to do it and then no one knew about it anyway, this is the first time that's approaching something like that where this AI is so powerful that it can actually go and, like, find all kinds of security flaws and issues that are very difficult for people to find. I imagine there's a lot more too. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Well, that's what Anthropic wants you to think. I don't know. I'm not entirely convinced that this is. This is the case. [00:26:53] Speaker A: I like your skepticism. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Okay, I'll give you. I'll give you an example, right? If you read into their white paper, okay. A lot of the white paper are [00:27:02] Speaker A: things, if I want to go to bed, I'll read it. [00:27:05] Speaker B: If you, if you read any kind of, like, publication from them, right, they're saying, oh, are they ask. They keep asking the question, is our models or RMR models conscious? Is it AGI? And then it keeps asking the same question over and over again. Sometimes the model says, yes, yes, I am. And you realize the reason why the model answers this is because it's trained on Claude and Anthropic's own publications, blog, content, media releases, and Dario's many, many podcasts that keeps repeating the Same thing. Which is. Oh, yes, our model is conscious. So, like, the model is just literally, it has no idea what it's saying, but it's being trained on the material that keeps referring to itself. [00:27:58] Speaker A: They just paired it back. I mean, that was. That was the explanation for the Malt book, right? That, like, it's trained on a lot of red data. It creates red. It's trained on a lot of science fiction. It just. [00:28:07] Speaker B: Which. Right. [00:28:08] Speaker A: I think. [00:28:09] Speaker B: And then, so, like, the internal employees of Anthropic looks at this. It's like, oh, of course. It's. It's the smartest thing ever. This. Of course, this is AGI. [00:28:20] Speaker A: I mean, I. So do I imagine that over Anthropic, they have some, like, major setup that. That they're asking and using Claude to run the company. And I think that, like, a lot of these strategic moves like this come from that. And so. So, like, I. I imagine on. At least in their world, this is. I'm making this all up. But, like, I. But I believe it's possible that, like, they believe AI is running Anthropic is what I actually think they believe. [00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. [00:28:51] Speaker A: I think Dario has got this. I think they've got this giant. I don't even. I could probably. Custom setup where they ask it questions and they feed it data. And I think that because this thing right here, this whole, like, news item, it, like, it reads to me like, if. If I was like, a. A high super brain, it's the kind of strategy that I would roll out. And then when you said to me, like, it's just. They have guardrail, they have this and that, I'm like, I can even imagine the AI saying that. I don't know. Like, maybe I've spent too much time with AI but, like, I could totally. I can clearly see that discussion and. And it. Recommending this as a strategy. [00:29:35] Speaker B: Look, all I. All I know is if they're using Claude internally and their uptime is garbage like this, something is wrong. It's definitely not AGI. So that's all I'm gonna say. Like, Claudo was down all day yesterday. Like, what's happening, guys? It's AGI, and you can't keep yourself up. I don't know, man. [00:30:00] Speaker A: Okay. Anything else you want to say about Mythos? [00:30:03] Speaker B: I think it's overblown. That's. That's my final. [00:30:06] Speaker A: All right, you heard it here first. Paul says Mythos is overblown. Okay. SpaceX. Lots of SpaceX news. So the SpaceX news is that Obviously they're gonna go public, right? We've been hearing about this, I don't know, last couple of months, but there always has been a rumor that either the IPO won't happen or that quickly after the IPO they will merge with Tesla. And so I saw now the Wall Street Journal is even reporting on this rumor. And what I thought was interesting was like, when I really thought through the logic of this, I think it's inevitable that they will merge either before or after. Because I think there could only be two Elon fanboy stocks in the market at the same time. And that if SpaceX goes public, you will have a couple different scenarios. Everyone who loves Elon and loves space and was buying Tesla because of that will sell Tesla to buy SpaceX, crashing the Tesla stock or the reverse that, like people who are excited about Tesla decide they're going to double down and buy that and not buy SpaceX. And therefore the SpaceX stock doesn't do well because, you know, by some estimates it's incredibly overvalued. Like private markets have valued the company richly and so will it perform that well in a public market. That was initially the high sort of thing about this like thing goes public. Like so many people need to buy this stock to support the valuation that like, can it even happen? And, and so I can see reasons on both sides for like the fanboy to say, like, I'm going to stay with Tesla, I'm going to sell Tesla. It just seems that like there's no way that ultimately the market can support this. We know that Tesla already trades is kind of like an Elon Musk etf. Like whatever Elon's doing, if people are excited about it, stock is up. If people are not excited about it, stock is down. And it's crazy volatile and it seems completely disconnected from Tesla's bit. In fact, like, I would go as far as say that Elon has told people the stock should be disconnected from Tesla's business because it's all about Optimus and all of the robots and AI and things that he's building. So I think it's like pretty obvious that these two things will merge. I don't know the mechanisms behind like when and how that will happen. I think there's a lot of different players, a lot of stuff happening behind the scenes with major shareholders and stuff. And like, I'm not the Wall street guru who understands the specific mechanics of how these things get negotiated and played out, but that is my ultimate, you know. Yeah, let's say prediction that they will merge. I, I just don't know. I just don't know precisely. Precisely when. [00:33:12] Speaker B: That's an interesting take, right from what I've understand, stood from what you just said, there's a concept of total addressable shareholder, which is the shareholder in the world that might be interested to buy, let's say Elon stock. Any stock that's related to Elon. That's interesting. So like you're saying there couldn't. If there's two Elon related stocks, they will cannibalize each other, right? [00:33:44] Speaker A: One, yeah, that's exactly what I think. I think that the, I think that the Tesla stock, that company is so richly valued and like, and it's so volatile and it's so disconnected from like any market. It doesn't trade on like Tesla earnings or the way a normal stock, let's say, should trade. They don't all trade that way. Perhaps should trade that. Like they, I think they have all the fanboys on that stock. There are. How many more could there be? I look like we both have been very public about like we're not happy what happened with X in general, like there are less Elon fanboys today than there were a couple years ago. Right. So I think they have completely maximized, they've maximized that to like large investment banks and you know, people with like a lot of money lying around want to buy more Tesla or buy, oh boy, buying them SpaceX. Like I don't know. The argument on the other side is that there is a big appetite for SpaceX and space companies. And I believe really deeply that like the space industry is going to be a really incredible opportunity. That's why I like, I started thinking about this and I was like, if so that's the bull case on the SpaceX side, which I guess is where I would ultimately land on all of this. I don't own either stock, I don't really plan to buy it. But if I was a Tesla shareholder today, that's exactly what I would do. I'd be like, well I'm selling Tesla and I'm gonna buy the SpaceX thing because that's the future, like electric cars. And you know, they've kind of come as far as they were going to come. Like, you know, they have a market, it's great, it's great business. I'm very excited about that technology. Or even people perhaps were buying Tesla because they believed in electric cars. [00:35:25] Speaker B: Right? [00:35:26] Speaker A: That was maybe even my motivation point. I owned it. Like I believe 100% I want this to Happen. My money's a vote. Like, I want Tesla to be successful. I want electric cars to be successful. And they did it. They actually made that. And I believe that, like the company, the stock, the shareholders, like, we did that. I'm quite proud of it when I think of it in those terms. We did that. We made that happen. And I think that's great. That's exactly what a lot of people want to have happen. And that's happened. So if you're of that same mindset, right, like, gets my own personal mindset. Like, I want the space industry to happen. And if I want that to happen, my vote with my money would be to buy SpaceX stock. [00:36:05] Speaker B: SpaceX. Look, I know, yes. I'm still waiting for Tesla for 20. That's. [00:36:15] Speaker A: I still see cyber trucks all around and I'm like, at this point I'd be embarrassed. [00:36:19] Speaker B: I, I see them all. Yeah, I see them all the time. They look ridiculous. They just look ridiculous. [00:36:28] Speaker A: Anyway, Anyway. Okay. Okay, we've, I think we've done. Anything else do we need to say on Elon corner? Basically, like YouTube has told us through the data analytics that we need to have Elon, Elon Corner, and every channel, [00:36:42] Speaker B: every single episode mentioned Elon or Trump. [00:36:45] Speaker A: Okay, [00:36:48] Speaker B: what's, what's next? [00:36:49] Speaker A: All right, moving on. Okay, Artemis. So I've been loving all of the photography, all the enthusiasm and excitement around our new. It's not even like really a moon mission. This is just a space mission to kind of do a drive by around the moon. And I think it's fantastic. When is splashdown? Do we know? Do you know? [00:37:17] Speaker B: It should be soon. [00:37:17] Speaker A: They're supposed to return, right? [00:37:19] Speaker B: It should be tomorrow. Tomorrow in the Pacific, near San Diego. So I think they should be back. Yeah, tomorrow. [00:37:28] Speaker A: I think it's excellent. I don't know if I have any, any more updates. I went pretty deep on my feelings about space industry. I think it's fantastic. I'm excited that like NASA is back. I'm excited that there seems to be a lot of entities pursuing this, both private and public. I think that's actually really healthy. You want to have private companies, you want public companies. You have like a lot of people working on this problem. It's a big problem and there's all kinds of interesting things that can happen. I, I hadn't, where did I hear this? I hadn't thought about like, some of the, like, mining stuff. So. Hey, if we put mining on asteroids or mining on moons, I hadn't realized that. Well, you'll need a Lot of energy to get there. So to like escape gravity, launch the rocket, we land all the mining equipment. Once you do that and you start mining everything, it doesn't take a lot of energy to get it back to the Earth. I didn't, I guess I had never like, looked at it that deeply. But it's actually like a really interesting point which means that like mining and some of these like industrial use cases, they could be practical in space because they like reduce all of the potion or remove the pollution, remove all those issues from the earth and then to return the materials. Whatever they're creating is actually not that difficult. Like we, we. It's a solved problem. Like we know how to put it on some kind of thing like shoot it in the atmosphere and just you need some kind of heat shield. It's, it actually isn't that difficult of a problem. It's the escaping the gravity of the earth and getting, getting out there is much more, is much more difficult. So I'm like super bullish on the space industry in general. I think it's gonna generate all of these like really cool use cases that, that will just make life on earth a lot better. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah. If sci fi movies tell us anything worse will be fought in space. [00:39:34] Speaker A: You think it's coming? [00:39:35] Speaker B: It's coming for sure. [00:39:39] Speaker A: What do you think about Artemis? [00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. I think it's, honestly, it's a great way for us to focus on something other than, you know, our backyard, which is all these wars, all these negative news about conflicts. At the end of the day, we're still on the planet altogether. There's no other planet that we can go to. So it gives us perspective. [00:40:05] Speaker A: We got iPhone4. [00:40:09] Speaker B: What did you think about the flip, the, the new iPhone? [00:40:14] Speaker A: I know, like, I don't know the tough one. Like, I mean, I was an Apple fanboy for like dude my whole life. Of course, actually I never thought about it that way. But like Steve Jobs, like I, I saw my bio somewhere, I was like, look, this guy changed my life. Like for real. Like when I was like 11:12, like, and I heard and like saw what people were doing with like Macintosh and computers, this was like 80s. Like, it was a, it was a big deal. Like I used Illustrator 1 and I've used every version ever since. So it's been a big, it's had a big impact on my life. So I don't know if I have like the right perspective here or. Oh, I guess I'm not an, I'm not a unbiased person, but I will say like these launch have gotten a lot less exciting for me. I don't know if I have plans to get it right away. Although like I think I'll eventually upgrade to the new iPhone, but I'm not gonna run out and buy it. How about you? [00:41:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think, I think they, they're falling behind on the innovation. I honestly have not been excited by iPhone launch in the past, what, 10 years. IPhone X was the last one that actually got people excited. [00:41:40] Speaker A: Maybe I was excited. I did get an X. [00:41:44] Speaker B: Maybe 13 was the last one that remotely was kind of cool because of the new chip. Other than that I have not been paying attention. I think I'm still on iPhone 13. They're on what, 17 now. I, I don't even know iPhone air. [00:42:02] Speaker A: Okay, okay, look, dude, if they fix Siri, I'm getting it. [00:42:08] Speaker B: So software, right? Like they have to fix their software. I agree. The, the software side of things is completely falling behind their glass updates was [00:42:21] Speaker A: why like I, I, I use the, the chat GPT spoken interface interface. Not a lot, but I use it and it works really well. It understands everything I'm saying. It talks back to me in a way that like is, is useful where Siri is just a disaster. Like it's the same crap I got when it launched, I don't know, 10 years ago at this point where like it never understands what I'm saying. It tries to like default and like do a web search in the browser. Like, it's just, it is the worst user experience and it hasn't gotten any better. Like I don't know if they have anyone working on it at all. And so we know that like a better product does exist. It's in market today. Like you can't use ChatGPT to do like the types of things that one would expect from Siri. So if they could fix Siri, I'd be really excited about it because I would definitely use it. I think a lot of people would use it. It's cumbersome to use the OpenAI version because like if you're in the car or doing something, you have to launch the app and turn it on and like it's just not easy to access. And I did use some version. I don't know if it was Siri, but like on my bike at one point I would use some of the voice commands that were easy to call while I was like riding my bike and that was like really useful. Essentially if someone, if an incoming call was coming and everybody battle headphones, you can like, answer the call and like, talk while you're riding your bike. And that was like, really fun. Be like, I'm right up the mountain, hey, blah, blah, blah. But if I could like, get that level of like, access to Siri that's like hands free and while I'm doing other stuff would just be like, yeah, fantastic. [00:44:12] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. They're already integrating. Apple CarPlay is in like half of the course. They could just make. [00:44:19] Speaker A: Yeah, but it's, yeah, you know, like [00:44:23] Speaker B: voice control, Apple Play, Apple CarPlay. [00:44:26] Speaker A: Oh my God, we got a new car. And for whatever reason, the Apple CarPlay goes out. And so I did like a Reddit search and I believe the issue is like, cell phone towers, like, interfere with the signal at certain times. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Right, yeah. So they can fix that. Get Siri to embed into every single car that has CarPlay. They have, they get my money, it [00:44:51] Speaker A: can obviously be solved. I don't know if it's a hardware problem or a software problem or a combination of both, but I, I, I [00:44:58] Speaker B: think, well, Apple's smart. Apple has lots of cash. Apple is waiting to see what the final version of AI is before they go, go full force into it. So yeah, for the next three to five years, they're, they're a fast follower of tech. [00:45:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Apple has got a lot of, like, they have a lot of existential questions that they need to answer and I don't think the answers are obvious. So like, we're early in show we were talking about like, oh, these can AI user experience convergence. So create your own apps. Like there are a group of people that are going to do that. How much of a threat is that to the iPhone app ecosystem? I would say it's a big one. [00:45:48] Speaker B: It's a big one. [00:45:48] Speaker A: So does Apple want people to be able to just create their own apps in their phone? Like, I don't know, Like, I, I don't, I don't know the answer. If I was Apple. Maybe they're just like a big legacy corporation. What are they, 50 years old? Right. Didn't they announce like 50 years of Apple? [00:46:04] Speaker B: Crazy. [00:46:05] Speaker A: So maybe they just act like a legacy company and they just don't do anything. They're just like, we're just gonna build the iPhone and the app ecosystem until every last dollar we can get from it, and we're just gonna become a legacy company and we don't really care. [00:46:17] Speaker B: Like, what other company that's 50 years old in tech that still has the same distribution as Apple, like, what Other [00:46:27] Speaker A: company or is this relevant? Right. [00:46:29] Speaker B: Or as still relevant. Every developer, every creative still owns a Mac laptop and still. [00:46:37] Speaker A: No, they're more relevant than they've ever been in a lot of ways. Right. Like everyone has a Mac. [00:46:41] Speaker B: Remember openclaw, everybody was going out and buying Mac Mini, Mac Minis. So like extremely relevant at the forefront of all of this AI at least consumer AI. [00:46:55] Speaker A: I mean I would say big tech companies like Nvidia is older than all the big, the fang companies but they've had a, had a long term, long time where they were just kind of like rather obscure company. I mean Facebook's been around a while at this point. They're pretty and they're definitely more relevant than they've ever been Microsoft. Right, but there's a handful. [00:47:16] Speaker B: Fair, fair enough. Yeah. Nvidia has always been relevant though like just in different industries. Right. Like in the gaming industry they were always relevant. [00:47:23] Speaker A: But it's, it's, it is super rare. Right. There's thousands and thousands of tech companies. Most that are here today, gone tomorrow. There's about four or five. I guess they're like basically the fang companies that have been relevant for a long time and are really relevant today and, and I don't see any way that they're not relevant in the like the long, yeah, the long future over the long term, like they're not going anywhere. The amount of just like infrastructure that they have, like Google is just powering the Internet basically. Right. Without them like it just, it won't work. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Fair enough. So. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Well, I know maybe I'll get an error when I feel like it. I'm due for an upgrade at some point. I will report back. [00:48:09] Speaker B: Nice. Would you ever move off [00:48:13] Speaker A: to what Android? [00:48:15] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:48:16] Speaker A: Oh my God. My own, my own homebrew device or something. Yeah, that sounds more fun. [00:48:23] Speaker B: Windows Phone, Remember Windows Phone? That was a thing. [00:48:26] Speaker A: I do remember Windows Phone. Like you know me. So, so obviously I think with all the let's say challenges over OpenAI, it doesn't look like that hardware device is coming out. [00:48:39] Speaker B: No. [00:48:40] Speaker A: Nobody. [00:48:41] Speaker B: No. You'll be crazy to compete in a hardware space as of right now. [00:48:45] Speaker A: So they were going to make that device. They were going to. So they, so I. So I do think there's a new generation of stuff that will come out. I was definitely going to get one of those things. I don't know what they're making. Is it an earpiece? Is it a puck? So, so I do think there's a future where there is a device that Comes out. That's interesting. That might be useful in ways that the iPhone isn't. So I'm definitely in market to try something like that. Yeah, I was definitely going to get it, but now I think that, like, OpenAI has been forced to just kind of, like, consolidate and refocus. Yeah, I don't think their hardware thing is going to come out for a while. [00:49:20] Speaker B: Yeah. We talked about this yesterday. The. The blocker right now is just battery tech. I think everybody was exploring a wearable device that's outside of the watch. Tried the AirPods and AirPods are. The battery life is just not good enough. [00:49:39] Speaker A: What was the humane AI pin? [00:49:41] Speaker B: Humane AI pin. [00:49:42] Speaker A: Even that one had issues. It ultimately was battery life is what. There was a couple challenges with the interface, but, like, if the battery life was way better and the device was lighter like it does, I think there is a market for it. I don't know how big it would be. And, like, you and I were talking to, like, the hearables. So the AirPods, like, this is a great invention, and if you could, like, jam more electronics into their earpiece. Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool. [00:50:14] Speaker B: But battery life has to. How. How often do you charge your AirPods? [00:50:19] Speaker A: Do they last only a few hours? Like, I use them all the time. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:50:24] Speaker A: I want to say. I want to say they last like a few. Like, I. So. So I actually have an old pair of the wire line. So I think I went on a flight. I'm trying to remember last time. I haven't even bothered to do it. Went a flight and I flew cross country and they died at some point in the flight. They were just zero battery. So I don't even bother with it anymore. I just assume that they're not going to work on a flight. And I bought the. I bought them in the airport because I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, I bought the wireline, and I use wireline because, like, there's no battery. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:55] Speaker A: So if any. Any time I'm somewhere, we're like, I don't want to risk that my AirPods. You go run out of power. [00:51:01] Speaker B: I just go, exactly. [00:51:03] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:51:04] Speaker B: Same. So, all right, let's do meme of the week. [00:51:10] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:11] Speaker B: It's a banger from this week. Related to Artemis. [00:51:18] Speaker A: Oh, my God. I don't know. William wouldn't even get this. [00:51:21] Speaker B: One of my favorite accounts. Boy, I just, you know, I love this. You want to say anything about it? I don't. [00:51:30] Speaker A: I don't think I have nothing to say. I think. [00:51:32] Speaker B: Explain it. I think. [00:51:34] Speaker A: I think. I think. That's what I think. I think either you understand this or you don't. You either a fan or you're not. [00:51:41] Speaker B: You. [00:51:41] Speaker A: I think it's funny. Or you don't. And that's. That's all I'm gonna say. [00:51:45] Speaker B: Done. [00:51:47] Speaker A: All right, Paul. [00:51:47] Speaker B: I love that. [00:51:48] Speaker A: Anything else we want to talk about? [00:51:51] Speaker B: I think we wrap up the show. We'd like to thank our first sponsor. [00:51:57] Speaker A: Oh, okay. Yeah. [00:52:00] Speaker B: I've used lots and lots of LLM listening tools across my AI marketing agency. If you're in the market to check out a new tool, check out PropWatch. They are one of the best. [00:52:16] Speaker A: What does PropWatch do exactly? [00:52:17] Speaker B: They are a LLM listening tool similar to other companies. There's lots on the market. I've personally tested literally every single one of them. [00:52:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:27] Speaker B: Because I was in the field. I have a AEO company, AEO Marketing Agency, and I think they're the best. All right, go check it out. [00:52:39] Speaker A: Nothing but the best for us. [00:52:40] Speaker B: Nothing but the best. [00:52:42] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, this has been fun. We moved the live stream to Thursdays. We will be doing this on X, LinkedIn and YouTube going forward. And of course, we will upload it to YouTube. And so we will see you all next week. [00:52:58] Speaker B: Yep. Right. See you all next week. Done. [00:53:06] Speaker A: All right. End stream. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Boom. [00:53:09] Speaker A: Do I need to end it on [00:53:10] Speaker B: and end it on X as well? So on X. It's really weird. We're sure it'll just keep going and going and going. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to end. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Okay, cool. [00:53:29] Speaker A: And then do you need to kill YouTube? [00:53:32] Speaker B: Yeah, doing that now.